It is also gnostic. I mean, what do you tell people who stumble onto the site looking for theological answers who have never heard of James White? Shortly thereafter (either as part of the original objections or in one of the immediate follow-ons) he makes what looks like a really nasty personal jibe or two. We protestants have a collective memory of the horrors of the uncritical acceptance of Romes claim to authority, and when the same mentality appears in the modern guise of civilized discourse, we can nonetheless accurately analogize it to jihad-think. sorry, I dont know what you mean by Angelwing Consperacy. I think his stupidity is a defense against the Truth that is the Roman Catholic Church. Puritan Board Junior. Jesus or Paul? That alone should be enough to appease some people but as of this writing, the pictures are still there. But I didnt ignore the thrust of the argument. James used to be an Elder at my church, and I've discussed the issue with him several times in the past. That leaves me with a bit of a conundrum, why is a roman Catholic apologetics website bearing the name of an apologist who opposes their position. Mt 13:15: James Robert White is a Baptist theologian,[1] the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, an evangelical Reformed Baptist Christian apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona and a Christian scholar. Your comment uhm I did post at least one specific theological question that White was asking has at least two holes in it. I have other responses to your post, but later . Indeed, her own topic of a nagging, impatient temperament. Esua, The Lord knows those that are his. then we can deal with it Posted by: CareBear | Aug 9, 2007 10:09:37 PM Muslims or Christians? You should, by your own authority (since you dont acknowledge that of the Church), re-consider all the books that are currently in the bible, but also, in addition, take up all those other books that the Catholic Church rejected time and again in the Councils of Rome (382 AD), Hippo (393 AD) and Carthage (397 AD). Genuine Gospel of Our Lord. It not only refers to a learners ability to apply and use grammatical rules, but also to form correct utterances, and know how to use these utterances appropriately. Have you stopped beating your wife? Theres no answer that will satisfy the situation. righteousness of God, which is without works of any sort, But to him IMHO, Whites arguments arent based upon anything but his declaration of what arises from Gods sovereignty. Heh i will say this in favor of cbs whites book excerpts: Ugliness that comes from misuse of religion is particularly tricky. So you should be thankful for the checks-and-balances provided by those of us outside your walls. It was Christ Himself, and no one else, Who chose His Apostles and disciples, and commanded them to teach His doctrines to all the world. should have bowed to those weak Catholic sensibilities in this matter of humor. CareBear, And I take it James White wasnt doing any name-calling by the pictures he posted? It was obvious from the start. Quite telling actually. [I had to become Catholic to be faithful to the Scriptures and to the Teachings of the Scriptures. 2. Do You Really Believe and Practice Sola Scriptura? Esau, Oh, and for the record, I think sockpuppetry, silly parodies and similarly goofy tactics (like people who insist on being called doctor while at the same time using moronic photoshops) have no place in serious debate and/or dialogue. he has filled in a joke template, but I can also see that it may have no humor in it, at least for many people. Oh, thats an interesting response. Bill, dont you know that theyre here to yell for us to interact with the (their) issues, not to actually respond when we do so? For instance, at times White comes across as sarcastic or arrogant when writing online but i think that is not a true indicator of his character. That is a horrendous thought, and much as we might dislike White or Carebear, they do not want to be disobedient to Christ. And why do you think it apropos? Can somebody say LAWSUIT??? Would the Disciples not choose their own disciples? 877-753-3341 (US Callers Only). Sad. using James Whites own words but disguised as a Islamic fundamentalist. Important point. I realized that apologetics are, by the very meaning of the word, defensive. Islam is theocratic. You cant make this stuff up! Just as all generations have known since Christ personally walked this Earth. Took some great Zoom calls today discussing the vine and the branches in John 15, MBTS, the Great Tradition, and Thomas (took a long time on this one), and then the Trinity, the Cross, inseparable operations, etc. Posted by: CareBear | Aug 9, 2007 10:22:53 PM You know the kind where he says something without really saying it. If you want more, the book isnt expensive. Now instead, you ought to forgive. Missing Epistle of Jude Just historically untenable. We, depending of context and abilities/gifts, use the appropriate skills, for the task at hand. I do not agree with the theology or conclusions. I have not gone off on a tangent, though you have. bill912, There were so many other books in addition to those that actually became part of the bible that the Church had to decide which of these formed Scripture. Yet another illustration, nay a shining example of how Whites supporters start from their bias always, always slamming Catholics without considering that there might, just might possibly be an alternate explanation. I suppose such a thing fits the logic and attitude of the mob though. It is not a *relationship*. Which is correct, and to what authority shall we go for the correct interpretation? Or are you so wrapped up with your infatuation for James White that you didnt even pay attention to certain particulars which have clearly gone above your head! He could have proved me wrong by citing the verses that teach sola scriptura. I think this characterizes the attitude of Akins crew well and, oddly enough, corresponds with the general attitude of ignorant zeal held by those in the doctored photographs. You have me confused with someone else. I find it interesting that in this thread or previous threads regarding the actions of Dr. Beckwith that he [Dr. Beckwith] is the ONLY one showing true Christian charity. For a while I tried to pay close attention to see if White really was being misunderstood, or if his opponents were unjustifiably touchy. Wayne, you make several good observations. He did not so admit. What is your criteria for accepting the books that comprise the New Testament, if you do not trust or acknowledge the authority of the Catholic Church that decided its Canon??? Eph 4:14: He is not doing so, instead, we are fed with his restlessness. Lets see, who else could jump on in here and pick up where Mr. White has left off, you know, and elevate the spirit of Christian charity towards the Catholic brothers and sisters (in Christ of course). Given, of course, good charity and a clear head from those whom he listens. You just dont want to go there. Other formats: Audible Audiobook, Paperback, Audio CD. White endorses using the modern Try it just once and youll see. The foundation of the certainty of our knowledge of the canon is based upon Gods purposes in giving Scripture, not upon the alleged authority of any ecclesiastical body. Posted by: CareBear | Aug 9, 2007 9:31:13 PM You can. Recommended reading can be taken up by those inclined. Your comment is interesting, you completely chastise Jimmy Akin for not debating James White and yet this is the same guy who refuses to debate Robert Sungenis anymore inspite of the repeated requests from Robert Sungenis. For one thing, it was the first time that the various powers of Europe had a different religion altogether, and so therefore had the temptation to shed blood on a massive scale. What? Hort were unsaved heretics, Here is an excellent 17:21 minute video Started off listening to a clip from Dr. Frank Turek with Leighton Flowers wherein Turek opines that many Reformed folks just have not thought through the ramifications of their position. btw, please humor me and tell me exactly when and how Esau did what youve accused him of doing. There were the great prophets Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Mao Tse-Tung men so far above the human race that they might as well be exalted as gods. He chose many disciples. Houston, Texas, Road Trip Schedule February 14, 2023 Haughton, Louisiana, Road Trip Schedule Tullahoma, Tennessee, Comparing the meaning and application of jot and tittle from Matthew 5:18 with the assertions of Peter Van Kleeck, The Insufficiency of Scripture by Andy Stanley, Radio Free Geneva: Frank Turek, Norm Geisler, David Allen, Why You Cant Have a Gas Stove, Then Mormonism 101Part 1, Lets Bring the Light of Gods Truth to Jehovahs Witnesses, The Death of Joseph Ratzinger, the Eternal Covenant in the London Baptist Confession, New Year Laws in California Show Deep Commitment to the Culture of Death, The Pillays of South Africa, Self-Made Energy Crisis, Response to Derrick Brite, Thomas Aquinas, Cornelius Van Til, Greg Bahnsen, A Quick Note on Categories and Endorsements, Wisdom for Future AmericansAnd all Peoples. hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful The Canon did not spring into being as a result of some random act of an Author. Its not as if God sits on His Throne in Heaven and yells to some Cherubs Hey guys, its time to update that Canon, Ive just written another book through John. I was responding to a post by Carebear. You cant have it both ways, both definitive and conditional. The wholly holy get the better seats Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church (Matt. Does anyone else see the irony in the way these people are acting and the joke being made in the pictures? http://jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2004/10/forgiveness_rev.html That would be tedious. The Plurality of Elders in Perspectives on Church Government:Five Views of Church Polity, Justification in The Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary, The Same Sex Controversy (with Jeff Niell), Whats With the Mutant in the Microscope? Charity does not write someone off as a moron who is simply impervious to our brand of truth. Dehumanizing your opponent is jihadi-think. And I think this is where White is coming from too. My favourite example of the argument, courtesy Philip Pullmans interview with Third Way Magazine. Thats a basic exercise to show one understands what one has read, so it should be very simple to do a web forum is much different than a book, so the phrasing doesnt have to be identical. True to form, the Alpha and Omega Ministries is a Christian apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona. Please give a specific example. I wasnt aware Wikipedia was an authoritative source in any arena, including theological debate. Alpha and Omega are the beginning and the end in tattoo symbolism and meanings. It cries out for a Caliph or a Pope or a Poll-Driven Ministry, whatever will work. Ally continued: James was clearly in a bind. Didnt go quite a full hour today as I mainly interacted with the clip of Zuby interviewing Andrew Tate and his conversion to Islam. As for your second, some other day perhaps you can tell me what you think should means. Does the Bible come with an owners manual? without considering that there might, just might possibly be an alternate explanation Scandal (skandalon) something that gives offense or causes revulsion, that which arouses opposition; the cause of ruin or destruction (Isaiah 8:14; Romans 9:33; 1 Peter 2:8) Their memory isnt infallible. Putting out a pad of paper for people to share their thoughts with one another is not the same as being willing to be cross-examined. Super encouraging stuff from the trip so far, including last nights presentation on the Trinity and Oneness theology. Westcott and Hort modern A true gnostic could never believe in things like holy water, regenerative baptism, the eucharist, and confession. Now, given what Foxfire was alluding to in the other thread, I can see that it is more than likely that the White disciples were responsible for this deception: Alpha & Omega 115 Trucker Hat. I asked: Is Beckwithamas the new Bushitler?). I believe the problem has been Do you think I should take the time for the rest? No, I was saving them seats. Algo had posted a few quotes that demonstrate, as all rational historians recognize, that dogmas like purgatory developed over time, and hence, are not apostolic in origin. I have four of my own to get in bed. Im quite disappointed I read the whole thing and the Rejoice! gnostic-troll didnt show up. Greg writes: Theo no worries, were not very formal here. I have no idea what youre talking about pertaining to the url. Call me a liar, youd be right, any Christian would confess such a thing. Box 37106 Jeff Durbin is Pastor/Elder of Apologia Church in Tempe since it was founded in February of 2010. . Irrelevant: Jimmy doesnt have time to monitor his comments boxes either, and he doesnt have CA staffers doing it (this is his blog, not the CA blog). That would be tedious. Rather than engage the *real issues* in this whole debate, such as the arguments Dr. White has presented to Dr. Beckwith against certain Roman Catholic doctrines, everyone has decided to focus on two pictures and a mans character. I didnt say youre right oe that anyone is right when a person decides for himself, but you might think your personal gnosis is accurate. I, on the other hand, being only a child, & having espied a naked man in the middle of the highway, am unafraid to say, once again: The Emperor is as naked as a jaybird! Thats what I couldnt quite understand Really, I dont think its unreasonable to request that information beyond go read this book be provided when having a discussion. Why should sound DO that? Most deep thinking Protestants come to this issue eventually and their continued Protest depends entirely upon Sola Scriptura. AV, I should add that the result of the six-step progression I just documented is that so-call apologetics becomes an exercise in arguing about who is more offensive than whom. I appreciate the kind comment though. Or can I just copy and paste your repeated (para-)phrase of nobody has addressed Whites points, and put my name in place of Whites? All of the category error pussyfooting nicely dodges the real problem with the picture: White states an equivalence between people in the comment thread demanding charity (yes, in a predictable and certainly from his standpoint irritating fashion) with those who use violence and intimidation to silence their opponents. In the Catholic Church is fulfilled the prophecy of Malachy: From the rising of the sun to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my name a clean oblation; for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of Hosts (Mal. 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