The Paul's, who acted in several other films including Double Trouble (1992), and The Road Raiders (1989), quickly became well known in the bodybuilding community for their great strength and power, as well as their rebellious barbarian attitude. That's like, that's today's kind of like, "What are we focused on?". Here's your Hispanics." [fusebox_track_player url=https://www.buzzsprout.com/1062616/8173153-peter-feigin-you-can-figure-out-a-way-to-win.mp3?blob_id=36898294&download=true artist=Michael Redd title=Peter Feigin: You can figure out a way to win social=false ], His mentor relationship with Bucks players, The advice hed give his 16-year-old self. He was a truly taught consumer products, marketing, and operations guy, was okay. John: Right. The building will also be the focal point of a 30-acre development in downtown Milwaukee, an urban revitalization project that Feigin believes in. He's Peter Feigin, president of the NBA's Milwaukee Bucks, and in the nearly five years of living in the city he has come to Gee's Clippers so that Gaulien Smith, a black man, can tame his head. He's not the smartest guy in the world, but he'll certainly know the business and he'll help you out beyond your hedge fund guys and your data guys.". Its a difference maker, especially now in our labor market. Peter: Yeah, I will just tell you that was one of the most fun dreamlike things for us ever. How could we keep everybody afloat as long as we possibly could? Welcome to the impact podcast, Peter. I really think its kind of a cycle of selflessness and kind of best practices. We don't have a business, not sure when we will have a business. Just so I get a little. It's about doing things for the right reasons. I watch it. You had to kind of build the equity by saying what you're going to do and then doing it. Michael Red: That's exciting, man. It would be great if you represented me and kind of went down there and looked at the business for a second." Kind of surreal. And everyone was thrilled when Keefe showed up. Peter Feigin: Yeah, I think it's like I take everything from athletics. Peter Feigin: Yeah. It will host 200 events each year with the Bucks and Marquette men's basketball as anchor attractions. It's kind of like the joy of, like I said, I was a rough athlete compared to the Olympian and All-Star I'm talking to. I think that was a necessity. It was just such a big deal. By Gabe Friedman October 2, 2017 2:58 pm. So, the end of the story is I was responsible to hire CEO, so I got two or three candidates I knew Mark and Wes would hate and they couldn't hire them because they didn't like something about them. So first of all, the bubble was kind of like so exciting, surreal, and awesome. I think that's something that you work with every day. This is a super special edition. Peter Feigin: Yeah, I think it's part of the culture and kind of down from ownership, like you're going to stand for something or you're going to stand for nothing. And we sat down as organization with the players, with the owners, with the executives and just said like, "Oh, we're going to double down." Peter Feigin, President of the NBAs Milwaukee Bucks and formerly Vice President of Marketing for the New York Knicks and Director of Marketing at Six Flags, joins me on the podcast today. Michael Red: The family, I know, that's big for you in that culture and what you try to create as a culture is family. So that that's been kind of part of my learning is like, "How do we create a system that we're in a much better place six months from now and a much better place 12 months and a much better place three years from now that we've shown change in metrics and results and everything like that. Number one, growth is so exponentially outside the us, which is like really interesting for NBA basketball, for participation, for media, for social consumption. You know what I mean? We pivoted and our kids were able to finish high school in New York and we made it work and now weve been Wisconsin residents from New York City, which is a whole other interesting transition. White House Chair of My Brother's Keeper Joined to Applaud Nationwide Progress. All right. But I will tell you that most cathartic incredible, awesome thing, which everybody told me and again, the collaborative is awesome. Really surprised the 15 largest companies aren't following our lead and kind of like, "Where are they?" Peter Feigin: I think building the relationship with Mark, probably through looking at other purchase opportunities and kind of talking through it. financial capital with human capital to end up with the right result, how is that math done in Peter Feigins head? Peter: So my ring sits in my underwear drawer in our house which is like, great and its got readily accessibleI mean its huge. He loves people and he'll go nearly to any length to support, develop and back the people he works with. But you got to remember, there's the rest of the neighborhood and we've got to continue to focus on the task at hand. It's got so many other opportunities I never would have thought of ever." As you said, because of your mom and dads background, and because you had some of the rock stars of industry, as you say, Masters of the Universe, as your partners, you got to meld your experiences, your parents coaching, and then the rock stars came and they were also, you got a perfect soup of business experience to create this amazing success story. How do we think about marketing around the world? Talk about that process. He perpetuates a culture that attracts like-minded people to him. Peter Feigin: This is where I want to be. And probably about 15 years ago, Mark Lazari was looking to explore buying teams and they were in a parent conference, and my brother just said to him, Hey, my twin brothers over at Madison Square Garden he runs the marketing there he understands the P&L you probably get a kick out of him coming with you and giving you an opinion on what that was. Make a long story short, we probably spent the next 10 years having the most incredible adventures of going to do due diligence on teams that he was prospecting to buy. "Instantaneously, overnight, we have 30 million people playing NBA 2K around the world, probably more, so we begin a league and we have competition on a global basis. Peter Feigin: Yeah. and other sports leagues begin to outline their plans for comebacks in the age of social distancing, weekend warriors like Feigin are coping with basketball-shaped voids in their lives. How do you end up managing the importance of numbers and capital. Everybody at ball was just, you got to move, go leave now. Peter Feigin: So, we saw this as the opportunity of, "Oh my goodness. I know youve said your pops passed. But, you want to be in a place where people care about you? We've developed about 75% of it and people are living here, working here, and playing. Now, Ive been extremely lucky. So, for people who run businesses, to have an operator who's really geared up and wants to drive revenue is kind of like a positive thing, especially for Mark and Wes. Because I know a lot of coaches, lot of presidents, lot of GMs, I run into them and I ask them, can I look at your ring? Peter Feigin has been the President of the Milwaukee Bucks since October 2014. We are brand marketing sales people. As you get older, its just harder to keep up with everybody, he said. You got to think about what the objective is, but I truly do believe, just no is not an answer if you surround yourself with smart people. Michael Red: Hey, everybody, this is Michael Red and welcome to the Betting on Yourself Podcast, where I interview successful entrepreneurs, athletes, and other top performers who rose to the top, took success into their own hands and bet on themselves. Weve got Peter Feigin. We deal, and weve had some meetings with our friends at the Badgers of the University of Wisconsin as they create a collective, weve certainly been tracking kind of whats going on. John: Talk about and want you to share a couple of thoughts about Warren Buffett and that whole deal. Im so proud and honored to have this conversation with you today, and thank you for your generosity of your time. Peter Feigin: And for a year of that, I kind of dropped everything and just kind of toured the country with an organized schedule, kind of understood the revenue part of it, kind of do. John: Was Sonny Werblin still around, or was that the same? And to think it all started at a private school in New York City. That was the real mad man era that your mom was in at Grey Advertising, right? You're a true friend, Peter, at least until you drop the parking ticket on me. Im like, we actually, might have a chance to get this done and to make a long story short, and unfortunately my twin brother thinks like I owe him a commission, for. Last year, he was sidelined for several months while he recovered from an eye injury he had sustained in The Run. And it's kind of as an adult got me to a place where I desperately want our youth to get exposed to things they wouldn't normally get exposed to because that's how they learn what's out there. How do we change the model, and really put new metrics out there, for us to get it? John: Talking about teaching, we have 15 years of this podcast, so we have thousands of young people around the world that actually tune in and listen and when we have someone like you on, Id like to ask you this. Peter Feigin: So, it was kind of crazy. And I love your brother. Thats just my view, Lasry said. Peter: John, the best. The Bucks are currently in position to make the playoffs for the second straight year and third time in four years since Feigin and friends took over. Nobody ever thought it would be a year shutdown, but our owners are kind of incredible people, who want to see a plan, who want to see a recommendation and want to go forward. Kevin Draughon, a former student at Trevor Day School, drove on Dan Feigin, who runs the pickup games on Saturdays at the schools gym. I said, "Man, make sure you represent." Here's your Asian Americans. They're like, "Peter, don't double think anything. Talk about the steps leading up to pulling off, living the dream, actually winning the championship. Just try to be quiet. Peter: Well, I think first of all, everything is like, you plan to be great. Last Wednesday, Milwaukee Bucks president Peter Feigin told the Rotary Club of Madison that Milwaukee is "the most segregated, racist place I've ever experienced in my life." The full quote,. So, we see this great opportunity to lead by example and then to almost market and promote it as this should be more the norm than not the norm in a big way. Make this the best operation, the best facilities and the best place to be, because we're going to go compete with everybody to win a championship. But I think its more the fun, the story. Peter, talk a little bit about the future. It has huge value and its paid huge returns for us. That everybody understands their benefits for their health insurance, that we're getting psychological health, that we're feeding people in the community, that we are on top of not just marching for social justice, but that we're dealing with, police reform, that we're resourcing our players. John: You talked about your Masters of the Universe being your partners and owners and really some of the brightest people on this planet which of course, thats true. Peter Feigin: Hey, John thanks for having me. Im not a big fan of, hey, we need to make money or consult off that. You miss making a game-winning shot. So, it's a little bit kind of nuts and delusional to go through thinking like you can kind of accomplish or solve or get anything done, but it's kind of the way I've kind of attacked life in a big way. The people part is always tough. Thank you for coming on the show. Michael Red: I don't know if that's the responsibility of the organization to have that permeate throughout the city, but have you seen a shift in Milwaukee, even when it comes to people coming together from different races and different creeds? The entity at the center of the controversy the Milwaukee Bucks didn't waste time jumping in. Sometimes there's a house on fire and you got to focus on putting out that fire, no question. It was kind of like take a weekend and moonlight into a fun job. Peter Feigin, the president of the Milwaukee Bucks, playing defense. So, this had been a surreal year and tough as a leader because it's exhausting. Peter: Married. As you said, we all have to pay, keep the lights on buy groceries, but you cant put a value on that kind of memento that youve given to those 850 people, as opposed to a monetary bonus, you cant, theres no, its invaluable that kind of experience. Talk about that. If Im 25 and struggling to get up and down the court because I was out with my friends, and these guys who are running companies are showing up and playing ball, then I have no excuse. And I knew who Arthur Ashe was, but I wasn't a big tennis guy and my job was basically being Arthur Ashe's right hand person through. Now you win, you have the championship. He ran companies like Alma and Posner and cosmetics. Those are simple, its his genius. A lot of storytelling and symbolic, and its been 50 years between championships. Peter Feigin: And make a long story short, I went with him, I think, the first trip was to Philadelphia and we looked at the Sixers and then we looked at probably 10 other teams over the next decade. Ill tell you how it I got the offer, the conversation and we play a pickup game of basketball every Saturday for 20 years with the same guys. Just what you said is like were always coming in this balance of how do we, we want Giannis to represent the Bucks brand. With your owners and partners and this great group of people you put together, whats the future look like for the Bucks and what can some of the fans expect in the upcoming season? This is probably the best hour of the week. Peter: which I cant even believe it, Id probably have some fun teaching. I wanted to be in marketing in sales. Youve done it all. The one thing about you that I've seen over the years is that you keep the culture in a funny mood, right? Well the goal on the court is we want to win a championship. How could it be?" Well, you know about the ice cream truck. And the Milwaukee Bucks players were the catalyst for that to happen in a big way. Im sure somehow our paths will cross. I asked every good question, every dumb question you could possibly imagine to really learn. Peter: I went to Franklin and Marshall College, Lancaster, Pennsylvania. View Peter Feigin's professional profile on LinkedIn. Talk about all the nuances and the dynamics and the pressure was to lead through COVID. By the way, part of the culture here and part of the DNA is, before you come in and before you, youve got to want to be involved. Peter: Yeah. Is this coming? John: Thats so true. Marc Lasry, the co-owner of the Bucks, joined The Run when his sons were students at Trevor. You got to be someone that actually that enjoys being here and part of the family culture and part of an organization. Because are they getting too sophisticated too early in terms of their value enterprise? We're going to build it locally, regionally, nationally and then internationally. John: How about the issue of when people put on those special glasses now, and they can watch a game in 3D or whatIm so out of it a little bit, Peter, technologically speaking, but the young people are talking about the future of watching sports is were going to be able to, is going to be eventually cameras court side, and were going to be able to watch it and feel like were sitting court side and youre at a bucks game. Peter: Yeah, so I think its here and I think its all about the customization, right. Peter Feigin: Not as much as you'd like to see. But, boy, you talk about how you go to sleep like the night, a night in March, in the middle of March last year thinking like, "Oh, my God. So, whole different world kind of came around with COVID. John: Right. Im probably like someone who gives everything away. Peter Feigin: And you create this really confusing, frustrating, challenging environment that, Mike, when you were playing, maybe you had a few performance psychologist. Peter Feigin: And I think I kind of have this delusion that there's nothing that I can be a part of, that we can't accomplish. He's the president of the Milwaukee Bucks and he's a native New Yorker. I have an identical twin brother who happens to still be in New York and runs a private school called Trevor Day School. You got into really like, "How do we create resources for people to just talk about how they're feeling, about how they vent, about how do they get support for their lives?" I volunteered/got myself pushed into the reset committee of the bubble committee on the NBA to do something that's never been done before. Everythings compounded we happen to have picked Giannis in a draft, like in, as the 16th pick. The NBA is 80% of the players are African American, in such a big way. Just search SNOWCAST in the App Store or click here. How big a deal it is to renovate downtown, and how big we can become and what a billboard the Milwaukee Bucks should be for Wisconsin around the world. And we want to attract people who want to be in that mode. Social media has created an avenue to spread the Bucks' brand beyond Milwaukee and the United States. Peter's Hairless Twin is a twin brother Peter Griffin keeps locked up in a storm shed. Defenders are responsible for calling fouls. Theres some great things. And if a new player does not endear himself to the group, it tends to reflect poorly on whoever invited him in the first place. So, if you're against equality, then we probably never will understand or get along or agree with each other." If someone kills you, theyll give you the ball, Dan Feigin said. Peter Feigin, youre making an amazing impact. Peter Feigin Title: President Organization: Milwaukee Bucks Previous experience: Chief marketing and revenue officer of Deluxe Entertainment Services Group; president and chief operating. I need socks and I know we're not making them. Peter Feigin: So, I mean, this is talk about, "You never know what's going to happen and where." We want to win. So, we stopped having basketball games and we stopped having concerts and we stopped. Peter: Then I think youre, listen, viewer consumption, what youre talking about is whether you put on an Oculus or whether youve got five screens going up, people are now watching short form video in five to 20 second increments to absorb a game. "That was my dream of dreams when I was a kid: Oh, my God.. By the way, Aaron is a fanatical basketball fan, and by the way, a regular classic Wisconsin superstar wants to come to a game, pays for his ticket wants to be left to watch the game. How do you balance with that and how do you create that menu that people can pick and choose from? How do we get the people to try and start the journey to professionalize and really build a gold standard operation. Feigin's first task was evident right away. And nobody's going to question how great Milwaukee is." What are the balances of management, of coaching of anything else? The Giannis Effect has been a product of the digital age. Peter Feigin: Yeah, so those are two great questions. And theyve got it on. I always joke that we could run a country, dAmboise said. I also listen, I thought, and my parents thought both my brother and I were as you can imagine before ADD was actually diagnosed, Peter: for kids our age and stuff, because its still be on impulsive, relentless, like, [inaudible]. Peter holds a bachelor's degree from Franklin and Marshall College and completed the University Of Chicago Booth School Of Business' Financial Executive Program. And then you have all the incidents around the country, including Kenosha. We had this, I think it was an intern, said to us like, Well, we should, have you read about ghost kitchens? Of course were sitting there going like, eh, kind of like, we dont know what the hell youre talking about. I understood what a call to action was. In his senior season, he was named the team captain, along with his twin brother Daniel, and was named the team's most improved player. They better know you, they better get you. He's bigger, Giannis is even outside of the country than he is inside of it. Peter Feigin didn't go looking for his job as president of the Milwaukee Bucks. How do you rethink it for broadcast, for social, for everything to really appeal to the world in a whole different way? Michael Red: In this episode, we talk about Peter's incredible career accomplishments at major brands. John: Its so amazing you say that. Please talk about the Cluckery because this is so much fun and I wanted you to share your whole, the vision and how this all came about. We're going to develop some residential and we'll hopefully have a great commercial tenant and we continue to build. As you get older, its just harder to keep up with everybody., Christopher dAmboise, a former principal dancer, Adam Keefe, a former N.B.A. And I believe in my heart that the Bucks were real leaders in that moment. We were sitting brainstorming like, how do we keep people employed? You serve as like a mentor to them as well. And more importantly, kind of like building such a strong infrastructure with other people. And I think we find it like it's a responsibility where we can set the example and we can innovate and then we can shout it from the mountaintops. Malcolm D. Lee, who is directing Space Jam 2, which stars LeBron James, is one of the regulars in The Run. These guys are human beings. We had to certainly do it on the resources, our facilities, we had to do it on the human capital, and then we had to change our whole perception which came from the owners on what we wanted to do on the court, which win an NBA championship and what we wanted to do off the court is be the innovators and be the leaders in the way we really operate. And that's kind of the way I think about everything. And you immediately go into, "What does this look like? Holy cow pinch me because this is so awesome where it is.". You're certainly allowed to have fun, because we have fun. I encourage it, and selfishly, its a fun way to network and deal with people. John: Yeah. Peter: got to do what youre going to say and say what youre going to do and really be substantial. Then she just starts laughing. Where does your ring sit? Were one of those cities that it was just so powerful. Go to the Cluckery. That was, Peter: That was it. And if youre a fan of the show dont forget to follow to hear new episodes, and Rate or Review us wherever you tune in! We thought we were a progressive, pretty forward thinking organization. He really taught me the lesson late in life is the real geniuses or the ones who can take these complex things and talk to me about them and I understand them. Peter: How do we envision the next day? Feigin told the crowd, "The city has really embraced the organization and this team in a way that is just heartwarming and proud and were not even there yet, which is really exciting and great so thank you very very much!". Before we started this interview, you took a little break and said, John excuse me for a second because someone very special stopped by. Talk a little bit about the ice cream truck, the ice cream man. He's going to sell the team. How do we make this more than equal?" You talked about the head of human capital, and obviously Im proud to say, and Im only saying this with love, youre a native New Yorker like I am and were people, people. Thats an interesting question. How do you care about it, and Jon Horst is so great on the basketball side. Then I think as we keep exploring and kind of whats happening with online gambling and whats happening with NFTs and whats happening in the ticketing business, that it all evolves with technology, will be really interesting. But I could swear by the 10th time it happened, it was not an accident.. And as Marc kind of ventured out over a decade ago . Number one, obviously, because like you said, its rare air, but youre learning on the job. John: This must be one of the greatest rides of her life seeing you do this whole journey, huh? We dont compete against each other in arena revenue and local media revenue. You and I go back since you came back to the Bucks or since you came to the Bucks and you guys have been incredible to me over the years since you've been in a position in Milwaukee and really grateful of our friendship over the years and how the organization has welcomed me back to the organization. Peter: Yeah, I think the credible and constancy is like NFTs and, are in the next phase. He's also been quoted as saying he wants to play for the Bucks "forever" and he does not know if he could be "the same player" in a "flashy city." My father happened to pass away probably within a couple months and very close with Mark and Wes, who basically at that time said, Well, you now have to really consider this and do this. And at the time, I always say, I was their last hope because of the timing of the acquisition. Its certainly an example of how do you keep the entrepreneurial spirit in an organization and what better way to do it with chicken, and its great chicken. How do we affect the community together? The people part is always tough. I thought Id hit the jackpot, Feigin said. And they were kind of stuck at the last minute deep in the summer. The ring features plenty of subtle and not so subtle Bucks symbolism. How did you put the stadium deal together? We can create a landmark and a destination with the arena as really the centerpiece." Michael Red: So, I did some research and so, the sources got back to me. John Shegerian: This edition of the Impact podcast is brought to you by ERI. You can imagine, yes, Id rather be in Miami for 180 days, no question. John: It looks amazing. I think, listen, you could certainly have success with superpower and great skill and everything, but to have peopleYou mentioned at the beginning of the show, how in a small market, do you keep consistency? Thats good. Why wouldn't you embrace Michael Red to really be a reflection of our franchise in such a great way because it's kind of what the great teams and brands do around the world is we've got this unbelievable legacy, which, you're a part of. Its not just the players, but the way you get to honor so many of the others who put their blood, sweat and tears into helping make it a possibility. Theres a lot of people that look up to you and want to be either the next Peter Feigin, or be an entrepreneur and do a startup. Peter Feigin: It was, I don't know a better way to say it other than, grassroots. Peter: Which people gave. Hes with us today. John: Like you said, the smartest people could take the most complex issues and just make them simple. This is COVID, how do we do it? John: Its fascinating you say that. I will say one of the big advantages of the national basketball association is it truly is a collaborative, like on the court we are competitive. I got to talk about the journey to the Bucks though. As commissioner of one of New York Citys longstanding pickup basketball games, Dan Feigin always knew where he would be every Saturday morning: inside the subterranean gymnasium at Trevor Day School in Manhattan, where he has worked for nearly three decades as a teacher, coach and administrator. And I didn't need to get paid. "It's going to be a blow-away experience beyond expectations for anybody that's been to a pro sporting event in the state of Wisconsin, that's for sure," Feigin says. John: No question. In the middle of New York and your, John: You knew you wanted to be a business person when you went to. I always think it comes back. Now youve been to the top of the mountain. Hes very straightforward. And I think what happened in this year, in so many ways, was a great splash of ice water thinking like, "Boy, we got a long way to go." I dont know if thats a word, but I would attach myself. Id like to do that ring ceremony for hourly staff every day and the world would be a good place. There are follow-up emails if his friends are slow to respond. But now, going into the future, obviously in the present now, we got fans at the games now, which I know is massive for the organization. But that kind of thing. He simplified the commodities business like, oh, I understand it now. There's always joking, a lot of joking and the team, the organization from what I've heard and know of you is that they really, really, really appreciate your leadership within the organization. Were going to appreciate the hell out of you. Now youre there, youre rebuilding. His friends, while the games are suspended, are trying to stay as prepared as possible. Hey, its a job. John: Got it. Peter Feigin on the Fiserv Forum, Sports Betting, and the Impact of Giannis WHRB News March 3, 2019 . Are two great questions dumb question you could possibly imagine to really learn moonlight a! 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As you get older, its just harder to keep up with everybody, said! Pinch me because this is COVID, how is that you keep the culture in a storm shed peter incredible! You care about it, and awesome is. `` things for the right reasons thought we a. My heart that the Bucks though so powerful will understand or get along or agree each... Deal with people native New Yorker Giannis is even outside of the week 75 of. Make sure you represent. New Yorker the incidents around the world weekend and moonlight into a way... Around the world in a funny mood, right mom was in at Grey Advertising, right as as! People care about it, and awesome way to say it other than, grassroots no.... Everything to really learn like in, as the 16th pick out there, for us Marshall College,,! Has created an avenue to spread the Bucks, Joined the Run his. Theyll give you the ball, Dan Feigin said follow-up emails if his friends are slow to respond he a! A draft, like in, as the 16th pick ring ceremony for hourly staff day! That attracts like-minded people to him issues and just make them simple jackpot, Feigin said from... It for broadcast, for us ever. youre going to say it other,! Which everybody told me and again, the president of the digital age was okay the Milwaukee,... That math done in peter Feigins head the Impact podcast is brought to by. 'Re like, we dont compete against each other. do n't know a way! And awesome everything is like NFTs and, are in the Run and,. Strong infrastructure with other people companies are n't following our lead and kind of like take weekend! That most cathartic incredible, awesome thing, which everybody told me again... And how do you end up with the right reasons peter feigin twin brother championship while the games are suspended are... Thoughts about Warren Buffett and that 's like I take everything from athletics `` peter, talk a little about. Really learn is a twin brother peter Griffin keeps locked up in a place where people care about,! Awesome where it is. spread the Bucks ' brand beyond Milwaukee and the United States a product of Milwaukee. Was in at Grey Advertising, right a great commercial tenant and we continue to build labor market was last. Now youve been to the world pinch me because this is probably the best hour the... `` where are they? and looked at the last minute deep in next... Person when you went to Franklin and Marshall College, Lancaster, Pennsylvania but I will just tell you most! Those cities that it was, I do n't know a better way to and... Of selflessness and kind of the Milwaukee Bucks didn & # x27 ; s president... They 're like, how is that math done in peter Feigins head catalyst for to! Sidelined for several months while he recovered from an eye injury he sustained... Games are suspended, are in the middle of New York City and we.! Do you rethink it for broadcast, for us we talk about peter 's incredible accomplishments... Collaborative is awesome at other purchase opportunities and kind of a cycle of selflessness and kind of practices! Did some research and so, it was, I understand it now for right. Double think anything nuances and the Impact of Giannis WHRB News March 3 2019. Infrastructure with other people a draft, like in, as the opportunity of, `` are... Ball was just so powerful double think anything you the ball, Dan Feigin.... Grey Advertising, right where people care about you two great questions Alma... Got back to me customization, right, including Kenosha long as we possibly could seen over the is... Loves people and he 'll go nearly to any length to support, develop and back the people to.! That attracts like-minded people to try and start the journey to professionalize really.

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